---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 19:19:09 +0100 (MET)
From: . <@cs.vu.nl>
To: Ontwerp MAS <[email protected]>
Subject: Agents, Real World and Decision making process models (fwd)
Hi again, Katholijn and Michael?, someone else too?, or just Michael?
Wonder if you know this [email protected] guy who seems to be
professor here and also have nice models of (collaborative) decision
making processes? I mailed him today some questions about modelling that
you might also be able to answer so the message is down there in the end
of this one. Do you cooperate with these SCW-people? Who invented the
boxes of Desire, where do they come from?
What about Walter van de Velde, then? I guess you know him, or? He's my
first agent teacher and does some great research. I addressed him some
questions I should've probably asked you, like the current and future
global relevance of Desire. Hope you have the time to take a look at them
in some point, his mail is first before Hubert's. Please feel free to
forward this to anyone if you feel it's more their job, especially if you
think it's none of yours :)
Does anybody here at the VU play RoboCup, BTW?
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:56:33 +0100 (MET)
From: . <@cs.vu.nl>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Decision making process models (fwd)
Hi!
We met a bit more than a year ago in Helsinki, Finland, where you gave a
lecture about agent systems. You probably don't remember but we had a
short discussion then, I mentioned something about social approach and
multi-presense perhaps which you even found interesting. Did we also write
something afterwards..?
Back then I knew almost nothing about agents but they simply seemed to fit
so well and solve so many problems I had had during the years, most of all
as a practical modelling tool for real life/world situations and
environments.
Since last year I've made some progress, moved here to Amsterdam to study
at the local VU and am currently finnishing the course Ontwerp van
Multi-Agent Systemen. I don't know if you're aware about what they teach
here but I guess you know our method and tool Desire? Wonder what you
think of it? They haven't mentioned anything about KQML, KIF and that
stuff you told us but I like the approach of different meta-levels,
assumptions, epistemology and all those sounds-like-philosophy things. One
thing I'd be really interested to hear is Desire's current and future
(ir)relevance in the agent world. I hope it is relevant since I'm starting
to love it so much! :) Still I wonder what Pattie Maes, Lennie Foner and
the other MIT-people use .. do you know Yenta well, BTW?
Apart from school books I'm also reading lecture notes in AI, these two
("Creating Personalities for Synthetic Actors, Towards Autonomous
Personality Agents" and the older "Artificial Social Systems" from
MAAMAW'92) cover some amazingly interesting topics!
Yet apart from school I'm writing an article for some Finnish magazines
about Multi-Agent Systems popularisizing the subject by introducing
RoboCup <URL:http://www.csl.sony.co.jp/RoboCup/>. The article that covers
also some other current research from social and especially communications
point of view (I used to work on the Internet Service Development
business) is on-line at <URL:http://www.cs.vu.nl/~/robocup.html> but
currently in Finnish only. The IEEE Experts covered it well so that's my
main source.
I have also been wondering about the possibilities of agent oriented
databases and www-servers. You told about this one web site you had for
the movie festival that was supported by the .. was it sales, timetable
and recommendation agents? I have already designed my own site (an.org,
call it Agent Network if you like :) to be 100% agentic so I'd need some
good software to build it. You wouldn't have anything to share?-)
Then finally to the subject itself:
- do you know a lot about political decision making models?
I bet you do after making GEOMED and everything. I was discussing RoboCup
from the workgroup evolution and dynamics aspect with one Swedish
political science student today and she had a nice book/syllabus from this
professor Huberts about Decision making processes. I was quite suprised
and happy to see familiar Entity-Relationships and even Desire-like models
there!
She, the friend I mean, told me that they use those diagrams frequently in
political decision making and complained that she is not happy with
reading them. Perhaps they'd need some software? I, on the opposite,
didn't even bother to read the text but to studied the diagrams only :)
Here's the message I sent to this Huberts, I'd love to hear your comments
if you only have time and interest to check this.
Thank you once again for introducing the world of agents to me back then
in Finland! I feel them really close and important. So I'm looking forward
to your reply already, if you only have the time.
And good luck in all your current efforts, whatever they may be!
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:06:44 +0100 (MET)
From: . <@cs.vu.nl>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Decision making process models
Hello.
I'm sorry but I am incapable of communicating in Dutch at the moment.
Hopefully English is ok, otherwise I apologize the inconvenience. As a
Finn English my 2nd language and Dutch is the 5th.
I browsed quickly through your syllabus for Social and Political Science
students today and found some cases so interesting that am hoping to get
in contact with you now. I already tried to find your room in the 6th
floor but heard that you are there only on Tuesdays. They gave me a
telephone number which I might try later but now I decided to try e-mail
as they told me you should read it regularly.
Two things on the papers appeared especially interesting and I have some
questions for you about them. Some of the answers might stand already
there printed. I apoligize that I didn't have the time to study the book
thoroughly yet.
1. Decision making process and other models (graphs)
* How did you come up with the models? Ie. what is their background?
(this, I believe, might be in the book already)
* How were the spesific modelling techniques chosen?
- I think I recognized at least Entity-Relationship diagrams
and some seemed similar to the box structure of DESIRE.
(framework for DEsign and Specification of Interacting REasoning
components, developed here at the VU Amsterdam)
* Where can I find more different models about similar processes?
2. Building highways and environmental planning
* Do you know the case in Belgium where an expert group has studied
environmental planning and political decision making methods?
- The experiment was called: "Mediation Agents in Multi-Party Decision
Making" and the method is called GEOMED.
- Walter van de Velde ([email protected]) from the Free University
of Brussels has a paper of the case and GEOMED at
<URL:http://arti.vub.ac.be/~walter/papers/paam.ps>
You probably noticed I'm not (only) a student in Social but also
Information Science. At the moment I'm studying evolution, networks,
conceptual modelling and the use of multi-agent systems. As you hopefully
see, these subjects have a lot common with your topics in Social and
Cultural Science.
In multi-agent, aka. actor, systems we need models of decision making,
co-operation and collaboration, for example. At least the modellign
techniques (many boxes connected with in and outgoing information) in your
booked quite similar to the ones that we use, about the content I'm not
sure yet. I wonder how much co-operation you have done with the
informatika people here or elsewhere? How well do you know conceptual
modelling methods?
Real world political systems, therefore also models, are of course lot
more complex than the ones we use for our computer experiments.
Furhermore, for real politicians models are only models -- they are not
always applicable and cannot be followed strictly. For us they tend to be
the reality, the UoD (Universe of Discourse).
Thanks to new design and modelling methods, mainly agent/actors I believe,
information science is beginning to be capable of facing a bit more
complex tasks. That is why I am looking at your real life aspects on
decision making, which is a central issue in our studies too. I'm sure
you have a lot new knowledge and wisdom to offer us.
Finally I hope that your possible help would benefit your own science as
well. Expert systems supporting decision making have been discussed and
experimented a lot during the years and, I must admit, the results have
not always been very promising and this history is full of
disappointments. Yet I believe that good progress is being made and yes,
that one day we will offer you something beneficial in return.
In case you don't know de Velde's work I encourage you to take a look! If
needed I could print this GEOMED-paper (26 pages) about decision making
process in geographical planning and hand it to you on physical paper by
non-electric mail or when you are here at the VU in person.
Looking forward to your reaction!
By the way: Are you the same Hubert I found on the Internet at www.kun.nl,
ie. Katholieke Universiteit Nijmegen? The search with your name returned
some papers about Australian and Oceanian studies.. There were also some
papers about methdologies in social-cultural studies with the name Hubert
in them.
-
. http://www.cs.vu.nl/~/
Computer Science, VU Amsterdam http://www.cs.vu.nl/